HEADER IMAGE Images from Kartik Research SS24 lookbook
Update: At the time of this conversation, Kumra’s company was known as Karu Research. It is now named Kartik Research, although some references to its original name have been kept in the original transcript.
In an ever-evolving luxury fashion industry, the path from idea inception to industry success as a creative can be a challenging one. Particularly for those who are non-White, navigating an environment steeped in racial and class disparity can leave you feeling deeply isolated and underrepresented, a fact that Anita Chhiba – the creative force behind art curatorial platform Diet Paratha – is intimately aware of. In 2017, Anita set up the Diet Paratha Instagram account to spotlight the many talented designers, creatives and brands of South Asian descent working within the fashion industry. Since then, Anita has grown Diet Paratha into a global community and creative agency, showcasing and supporting groundbreaking talent of South Asian heritage across varied creative professions.
One of the many ways Diet Paratha works to uplift the South Asian creative community is through the Diet Paratha Family Mentoring Tree. The program, which has now entered its second year, connects emerging talent of South Asian descent with creatively aligned mentors who share a similar lived experience. Mentors provide tailored guidance, share industry knowledge and offer motivation to their mentees – vital forms of support that can help positively shape your career.
Neha Dayal, a seasoned executive in commercial strategy and operations within the luxury fashion sector, and Kartik Kumra, the visionary artistic director and founder of Kartik Research, a celebrated artisanal fashion brand in New Delhi, are a mentor and mentee duo paired through the scheme.
Neha’s journey through the fashion landscape has been defined by her multifaceted roles and strategic contributions. Currently serving as the Senior Director of Trade Strategy and Operations at Farfetch and General Manager for Marketplaces at Stadium Goods, she possesses a deep understanding of the intricacies that underlie successful market dynamics as well as the difficulties in navigating luxury fashion spaces as a South Asian woman. Notably, her affiliation as a board member of FARSAN, Farfetch’s South Asian Network, underscores her commitment to fostering inclusivity within the industry.
Neha’s past experiences include managing seasonal designer data and building the data strategy for Moda Operandi’s inaugural FW19 “Runway Report” as well as undertaking an advisory role for designers such as Reike Nen and Supriya Lele. Splitting her time between the vibrant cities of Los Angeles and New York, Neha’s insights into the ever-evolving fashion scene are invaluable.
Conversely, Kartik Kumra’s journey takes us to the heart of Karu Research, an artisanal fashion brand rooted in the rich heritage of Indian handicrafts. Founded in 2020, during Kumra’s sophomore year at the University of Pennsylvania, Karu Research emerged as a pandemic project where Kumra worked with local artisanal communities and established a network of expert makers. His venture has led him to collaborate closely with master craftspeople, yielding five awe-inspiring collections that have found homes in illustrious global retailers, including Ssense, Mr. Porter, 10 Corso Como and Selfridges. Karu Research aims to reintroduce humanness into its clothing with every item boasting some handmade element, whether it’s the shirting and quilts produced on handlooms and dyed with plants and herbs, or the embroideries that are intricately sewn by hand. Neha’s insights into market dynamics and strategic thinking are poised to complement Kartik’s dedication to preserving the essence of traditional craftsmanship in a rapidly growing industry.
For The Age Issue, the pair sat down with BRICKS to discuss overcoming imposter syndrome, the benefits of peer mentorship and the realities of carving a career path without a blueprint.
NEHA: I feel like Anita’s program is so unique because it took the concept of our culture, which is super mentorship-led, like your parents and your uncles and your aunts help you figure out how to get into their fields. Anita’s program was a bit like that, as our parents don’t know a lot about the creative field, but our peers do and they’ve made a lot of inroads. I’m curious to know what mentorship has looked like for you as a young, emerging South Asian designer? Are you getting a lot of support from family and friends, or is it more outside of your family?
KARTIK: For a long time I’ve been looking for, and I think honestly I’m still looking for a designer who’s done it and can help me out, and I still haven’t found that yet. In general, my family didn’t know shit about this stuff – if anything I think most people just discourage you, because it’s not familiar, you know? Or the idea of esoteric menswear is, because they haven’t seen [it before], there’s no blueprint from India.
N: It’s off the beaten path.
K: So that’s why they weren’t super encouraging. I remember going to meet other designers in my mom’s network, like my mom’s friend knew someone in Delhi, some established wedding-wear designer or even a ready-to-wear Indian designer, and they would just ask me – this is already when I had a good stockists list – they were just asking me how I’d done it, taking all the information from me, and then giving me nothing in return. I realised I just had to do this myself.
I think the mentorship programme appealed to me for those reasons because Diet Paratha is more diaspora-focused, I would say, than India-focused, and we sell abroad and the market is abroad, so it made sense to work with people who have an understanding of what it is.
N: As you’ve been growing in popularity, have you accumulated more people who can act as sounding boards? You mentioned you’re still sort of looking for that singular person, but I’m curious to know if, along the way, have you been picking up insights here and there? Or has it been like, you’re on your own out there?
K: No, I think if anything it’s become more insular which is kind of sad.
N: Really?
K: Yes, even in design peer groups in Delhi, I’ve struggled with people wanting to use Karu as a shortcut for their own thing. I’ve not had a lot of great experiences. I have to say, I have one friend, this dude Jake in New York, who I use as a sounding board for ideas. He is also a designer so he can also exchange whatever is on his mind. But if anything, I’ve gotten more wary of what I’m putting out there. I’ve just hired my first employees three weeks ago…
N: How exciting!
K: Thank you. Yeah, it had gotten so insular to the point where it was literally just me.
N: It’s a lonely world.
K: Definitely.
N: It’s interesting because I do agree with you, especially in this industry, that there’s a mindset of ‘help yourself’ and it’s very competitive too, so people don’t necessarily want to collaborate. I think finding the right mentor is something that a lot of people struggle with because it’s so personal, right? No one is forcing you to mentor anybody so it can fall off or not be quite the right fit. I have definitely had mentors in the past that have led me astray or given [unhelpful advice]. Is there anybody from your history, whether it was pre- or during Karu, that you’ve taken some good insights from?
K: I think my agents really helped throughout. They had a store called B store in London which was like the UK’s Opening Ceremony, and they’ve always been super fair and honest with feedback. They’re good at offering advice and suggesting improvements. So definitely them, and you.
N: I make the list?
K: Yes, it’s one of the few good things I’ve done mentorship-wise. I signed up for one once, and they were like, ‘Oh, we were looking at you to mentor someone’, and I knew that’s not going to happen.
N: Honestly, that’s how I felt when Anita first approached me for this – like, you want me to mentor somebody? I need mentorship! It’s funny because even people who have mentored me in the past, I bet everyone is just looking for guidance. I also agree with you, it’s hard to find somebody willing for that to be a two-way street. It’s a lot of take and not a lot of give.
You’re also pretty young and have gotten very far very quickly by being super intelligent about how you’re approaching fashion and the business of it. Do you find that your age has helped you or has it hurt you when it comes to finding support in this industry?
K: I used to think age was a big [factor] – we used to talk about it a lot. When we started working together, no one wanted to cover the brand, and largely that was because I was anonymous and no one knew who I was until about a year into running the brand. So I don’t think my age had much of a positive effect. I think the downsides are in negotiations and with employee respect, having people question, ‘How’d it happen for this guy?’
N: That sucks.
K: Yeah, it does suck. It does.
N: I think you and I have taken complete opposite strategies on this – you leveraged your age to actually tell your narrative. I removed my graduation dates from my LinkedIn. I was like, I do not want people to know my age, because it works against me especially when you’re on the business side. Like when you’re doing OFFs in strategy, it hurts you for sure.
You’re young – let alone a girl – if you’re a young girl, it’s rough. It’s funny that in your in your space, I actually think the younger you are, the more of a story it is, that you’ve been able to achieve so much, which you should definitely celebrate. But I think, particularly given the theme of this magazine, that this goes back to the concept of the Diet Paratha programme. It really is ageless – I don’t know anybody’s age, we all sort of look the same age and we’re all helping each other out.
I’m also curious from your side, too – when we talk about age, because you’ve got people like Phoebe Philo who’s coming making a comeback, and she’s much older. Then you’ve got people like yourself who are emerging on the scene. I don’t think the industry has totally figured out how age factors into [designing], if at all. I’m curious what your perspective is on, for example, Pharrell becoming the creative director of Louis Vuitton, which was very contentious because they were looking at a bunch of other young emerging designers. What’s your take on the ‘fresh meat versus old hats’?
K: I mean, it would be nice if [age] was less of a factor, long term you don’t want to… everyone does get a bit washed up, and you know, you have your time, but you’d hope that that you can work that period for a longer time. That part is definitely worrying, and it shifts your perspective… but I guess it’s the natural course.
When I was a part of the LVMH prize, most of the designers were in their mid to late 30s, and I was 23. It was a really weird experience for me because it felt like [the other designers] had so much more experience than me, or have these connections. After all, they’ve been working in the industry for 10 years before starting their own brand. That was definitely the first time where I really noticed [my age] as a disadvantage. At the same time, maybe if I wasn’t that young, maybe the narrative wouldn’t have been strong enough for me to be in that position. Both these thoughts were going through my head back then.
N: Speaking of the LVMH prize nomination, you went to Paris and you presented with all of the semi-finalists. Interestingly, you’ve commented on how they were all much older than you – as you are gaining experience in this industry, you’re still really young and you’re still really fresh, but do you feel like you’re getting a better grasp on it, or is it feeling more and more foreign?
K: I’m definitely getting a better grasp on it. This time in Paris, it was the first time it felt like people were coming for the brand, they were coming to the showroom to buy the brand. We held an event in Paris and people came because they had a level of familiarity. I didn’t really have to introduce it, which was the first time, and that was weird because you always have to justify [the work].
N: Yeah, you’re so used to elevator-pitching people, but now they’re elevator-pitching you?
K: Maybe not quite. It was nice to not have to explain it, and that definitely felt different. Perhaps that has something to do with the prize, or just time going by.
N: The other thing I noticed about a lot of the other designers, including yourself, is they weren’t specifically designing for younger people. I think what I find interesting about your collection is that it’s also quite ageless – I’ve seen everybody from the 20-year-olds in Dimes Square to my dad wearing your clothes. I’m curious, when you design, do you have age in mind?
If it’s a good product, whoever resonates with it, resonates with it, that’s my philosophy towards designing.
Kartik Kumra
K: Definitely at the pop-ups, the age range is wider than I thought it would be when I started designing. I don’t really design for an age demographic specifically, we have our shapes and iterate on those ideas. If it’s a good product, whoever resonates with it, resonates with it, that’s my philosophy towards designing. I’ve seen the occasional person who’s like 50s or 60s and they think ‘That’s a cool jacket I saw that in store’ and didn’t know what the brand was and just bought it, so we definitely have that. We have people who are looking for their fun holiday shirts from Mr. Porter. And then we have the real heads. That’s the biggest audience.
N: I find that really interesting because it’s reflected in your audience, you’re not designing for an age and you’re allowing people to just discover what they like about it no matter age or where they are geographically, which I think has really helped you. As you’re expanding your offering, how are you thinking about your audience as you sort of grow your business? Is it the same mentality or are you changing or diversifying at all?
K: It’s pretty similar. When your audience is getting wider, you can never really control who is going to consume it, you just put stuff out there, that’s for all the big retail platforms. If I work with big collaborators, their audiences are more diverse, so whoever resonates with it will find it.
N: Totally, I think that’s a much stronger business strategy than picking a specific group of people to design for, which I find is like a trap that a lot of emerging designers fall into. So you did mention when we kicked off this interview, we were talking about how a lot of the people from our culture and older generations aren’t super helpful in this field specifically, but have you picked up any life lessons that you’ve been applying to your business from people older than you?
K: Not in the creative sense, but it’s in the work ethic.
N: Yeah, totally. That’s one thing that we got going for us.
K: I mean, I don’t even know if that’s a positive thing, it just like gets drilled into you. You prioritise the business over pretty much everything. I guess that’s paid off financially, and the business is going in the right direction. But it’s definitely like a cultural thing at the same time.
N: Yeah, that’s a really good point because you don’t have traditional schooling for your creative side. I would love to learn more about your early experiences with the brand. How did you get started, even know where to start and how to run with it?
K: I used to flip Supreme, Yeezys, stuff like that. That’s how I funded Karu initially – the first sampling collection was done through that, the difference between the deposit and the cost of the first season was covered.
What else? The school of YouTube and buying books, there’s a book called Margiela: The Hermes Years. And you know, when you’re just going through these stores, even as a reseller, I was never into Supreme or a real sneaker consumer, but you develop a perspective on clothes just through osmosis, I guess. Then I realised that something was missing – there was a perspective from India that was missing. Then I just got to work. I think, from the time I told my mom during COVID while I was at home to going to factories and trying to figure out how to actually do this was three days. I didn’t even put that much thought into it and I didn’t have any conception of how difficult it was going to be. I just kind of went and did it, and that’s how I usually approach things.
N: That’s the hardest part, just getting started and putting your whole being into it. Just getting going and being committed to getting going is the hardest part, so it’s super impressive. A lot of the artisans you work with are at these factories in India because many of these techniques are coming from them, right? What are the different techniques and skills you’ve learned from them or picked up from them around how to approach some of these designs, or is it more collaborative? How does that generally work?
K: The design process is collaborative. I still do the sketches of the embroidery or the pattern or patchworking of whatever we’re making, the collaborative process comes in where we’re open to more ‘happy accidents’ and their perspective, and sometimes makes it not what I had in mind.
I think attitude-wise, there’s been a lot of learning with organising the supply chain. While we’re scaling, I’m noticing that some people want to come along for the ride, and some people just don’t – the ambitions of different artisans have to be taken into account and how it aligns with their personal lives and goals, because they can’t also just press a button and scale up, they also have to create resources from their perspective.
I think trying to understand what their needs are, and how that may not always be professional – it’s not always just about scale, growing their business or getting more money for them, their pursuit is very different. It’s more about about pushing the craft, so aligning our designs, and our business model with [the artisans] is what I’ve learned.
N: And that’s honestly, I feel like that’s super different than how things are thought about in a lot of the Western and European world when you think about how are we making sure that this is commercial, right? You can sometimes get lost in the sauce on the creative side, but having that balance is so important and it clearly comes across in your product that that’s important.
That’s a really great topic, because of the conversation that’s been happening recently around the luxury opportunity in South Asia, whether it’s within India or in the diaspora audience. It is something I find very interesting, especially the Dior show that was done with the Chanakya School Of Craft and starting to put the artisans who make all of these luxury clothes into the spotlight. It is in a way teaching the world about some of these skills and artisans – Dior posted a video about Zardozi and my mind was blown by this. How do you feel about that? Because part of what you’re bringing to the world is this craft that much of the world doesn’t know about. How do you feel about that being a key piece of your brand narrative?
K: Can you explain further?
N: I think a lot of what you design looks very much, to somebody like me who is South Asian, it looks very much like it’s clearly from a South Asian designer. To me, the techniques that are being used, the fabrics that are being used, the dyes that are being used, it’s all very unique to India. I think what you’re doing is bringing that to the Western and European world in a completely different context.
There’s a big wave of that happening now across all of luxury, whether it’s what Dior has been doing or what you’ve been doing or this sort of globalisation of brands like Gaurav Gupta where he’s taking the Indian aesthetic and Indian craft and dressing European and Western celebrities. How do you feel like you fit into that? Is it important to you that this style of craft is becoming more globalised or is it more for you just about the creative components here and and how you’re building your own collections?
K: I mean, it is important and at the same time, it’s not the most important thing. What makes the brand cool is that element of craft, the hand-embroidered element, the fact that people can tell that a lot of effort has gone into that. The rack appeal becomes very apparent. In terms of spreading the message or using Karu as a vessel, I don’t think we have that audience or power yet. Maybe Dior does, but we’re still a small brand.
N: Give yourself some credit. I think you’re doing a bit of that.
K: Totally, but within that, different things come into play. We’re not running a charity, so I don’t want it to seem like we’re ‘saving the craft industry’ because we’re still running a for-profit business. Sometimes when you see these romantic videos or these narratives showcasing [hard-working artisans]… no shade to Dior, it’s cool that they did the show in India. But those are the samples – the production of this [collection] is still being produced in whatever factory.
N: So what you’re saying is there’s still work to do here…
K: My production is made using artisans, so what you see in the samples is what you see in the production line. For me, whenever you’re considering the social impact, I guess the way the economics work, when you’re just digital printing a block print or recreating a hand embroidery to machine embroidery, that defeats the whole purpose of employing craft in the first place. At that point, you might as well just be doing what H&M has done. Functionally, at the same time, you can charge a higher price and utilise nicer fabrics. The economics for the craftsperson is the same, or if anything it’s killing their market, but our approach to craft preservation is to employ craftspeople…
N: …which is still meaningful. I’m interested in how you perceive the longevity of your work right now – how far do you hope to take Karu? Is this something that you see yourself doing for the rest of your life, or are you somebody who’s trying to become a creative director at a big house in the future? I’m curious about when Kartik is 30 years old – where will he be?
I don’t know if that’s even on the cards for me, being creative direction of a house. At least, I haven’t seen people from my background get something like that. Again, you know, the blueprint is not there.
Kartik Kumra
K: Everyone has those aspirations – I don’t know if that’s even on the cards for me, being creative direction of a house. At least, I haven’t seen people from my background get something like that. Again, you know, the blueprint is not there.
I don’t think you can plan for that. For me, I have no intention of focusing my career or my designs to get one of those jobs. Karu was the primary focus, of scaling Karu to become the Indian-heritage brand. If that leads to other opportunities, great. If it doesn’t, we’ll have our own fashion house. That’s the way I approach it, in terms of personal ambitions. I think we’ve proven that the brand has legs – we’re in 48 stores as of SS24 in Dover Street Market and Saks 5th Avenue, so it’s some of the best 48 stores in the world.
N: When we met last year that number was less than half of that, wasn’t it?
K: Oh, it was like eight.
N: That’s crazy growth in less than a year.
K: [I’ve had to] change my attitude from being filled with imposter syndrome to being surprised by the response, but remaining positive and just trying to keep up and supply the demand. Now I can see that we have a brand, and it doesn’t feel weird anymore to say that.
N: You feel like it’s more validated as a brand?
K: I mean, I still wouldn’t… if someone asked me, ‘What do you do?’, I’m not going to say I’m a fashion designer.
N: Why? You’re a busy man.
K: It’s hard to not come off as an asshole.
N: It’s nice that’s what you’re worried about because I feel like people are often assholes. You mentioned impostor syndrome, which I think is also super interesting. I have to put this on record in writing somewhere – when I met Kartik last year, he said he wanted to get an LVMH prize nomination. And by God, this kid went out and did it. You set out to do something, and you did it, which was just super impressive to me. Do you feel a little bit less impostor syndrome now?
K: Oh no, it’s definitely still there but I think you figure out ways to bullshit around it, or just deflect through humour. I think whenever I’m in a buyer meeting in a showroom, I’m still not 100% comfortable in those environments.
N: Vision-wise, what’s next for the brand?
K: I would like to do some sort of real-life [event] in Paris. We’ve talked about it for over a year now so it’s been on my radar. Whether it’s a presentation or a show, or whatever, we’ll see – there’s so much bureaucracy that goes into something like that, but I want to give it a shot.
Besides that, it’s training my employees so that I can spend more time on the bigger picture stuff – sales, and potentially opening a store. Right now, I’m talking production management most of the time, so I’m trying to figure out ways to automate the parts of the business that should have been automated by now. I’m interested to know what your experience has been like on the mentor side of things?
N: At a certain point I was mentoring 4 different designers – there was you, there was Surmai Jain with Polite Society who has done an incredible job. I didn’t even really help her, she knew what she was doing and he’s been running that thing like the military. Then there’s Sara with Margin, who again, I think he’s got such an eye for exactly what he wants to be doing. Then the other one was Supriya Lele who is a friend of Anita, and she was in a different phase, so I was working with her on structuring and funding, all those components.
It’s been very different, and I can confidently say I was more helpful to some of you than others, I think I can be honest about that just based on what my skills are. But it was super interesting chatting with all of you, working with all of you and learning about how my experiences on the strategy and operations side of fashion could apply to young, emerging designers. I think this programme and what Anita is doing are absolutely necessary and she’s really changing the game. I joke, but she’s the most well-connected woman in the world – she just knows everybody in this emerging field.
I definitely had impostor syndrome about [mentoring others] because I’m also, like you said, I’m looking for mentors. I’ve been lucky – I’ve my my current boss, she’s the CEO of Stadium Goods, which is the sneaker luxury consignment retail business that’s owned by Farfetch. She’s a powerhouse, I’ve learned quite a bit from her. I’ve had a lot of luck with having incredible bosses who have taught me a tonne.
I think it’s really hard to find somebody who’s invested in you, and not just themselves. It’s tough. I think the fact that [Diet Paratha Family Tree Mentoring] focuses on South Asian people, we just have such a sense of family and familiarity with each other without necessarily needing to be related. It’s inherent to how we view each other, and it can be an incredibly useful and powerful tool.
K: Definitely, it feels like it’s been a win-win experience for everyone.
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